Speaker A: 00:00:55

Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads podcast with Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

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Pastor Bob conducts personal interviews with Christian influencers from around the globe, helping Christian authors, recording artists, CEOs, entrepreneurs, non profit leaders, and yes, pastors and ministry leaders to get the word out about what they are doing to impact the world with the gospel.

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Our podcast has been rated in the top 1/2% of all podcasts in the world by ListenNotes.com so you know your message will be heard.

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Now here is your host with today's interview, Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Speaker B: 00:01:35

Hello everyone everywhere.

Speaker B: 00:01:36

Pastor Bob Thibodeau here.

Speaker B: 00:01:38

Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads podcast.

Speaker B: 00:01:40

Today we are so blessed you're joining us.

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What if I told you that everything you've been taught about living for the Lord might actually be holding you back from true freedom in Christ?

Speaker C: 00:01:53

What?

Speaker B: 00:01:54

And that if you really, really wanted to serve him, you may have to stop living for the Lord.

Speaker B: 00:02:01

Wait, what?

Speaker B: 00:02:02

What did you just say?

Speaker B: 00:02:04

Well, if that got your attention, let me explain.

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My guest today is Duane Lawrence.

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He's the founder of Greater Covenant Truths Ministry and the author of an eye opening book, Stop Living for the Lord.

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And through his ministry and his writings, Duane challenges traditional religious mindsets and helps believers to step into the true freedom that comes from understanding their identity in Christ.

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And if you ever felt like you're stuck in a cycle of religious performance, working for God but never feeling like it's enough, well, this conversation will shift your perspective and set you on the path to real, lasting freedom.

Speaker B: 00:02:42

With that being said, help me welcome to the program, Duane Lawrence.

Speaker B: 00:02:45

Duane, I appreciate you taking time to visit with us today and share all about this great book, brother.

Speaker C: 00:02:51

Well, thank you very much for having me.

Speaker C: 00:02:52

It's quite an honor.

Speaker B: 00:02:54

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:02:54

Now the first question I always start with is this.

Speaker B: 00:02:57

Other than that brief information I just shared, can you tell us in your own words, who is Dwayne Lawrence?

Speaker C: 00:03:03

Well, I wear a lot of identities, which is going to be the main topic for today is about identity.

Speaker C: 00:03:10

And we all have a lot of hats we wear.

Speaker C: 00:03:12

So I'm a father.

Speaker C: 00:03:13

I've been married for 35 years, father of four, have five grandchildren.

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We just got a new granddaughter, our first granddaughter at the end of January.

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So we're very excited about that.

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But I have a background that is pretty extensive.

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I guess it starts with me being the son of a pastor and missionary.

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And so I grew up in church my whole life.

Speaker C: 00:03:37

I've been born again almost 50 years, which when I say that out loud, that's it always kind of Takes me back a little bit.

Speaker C: 00:03:46

So I've been in church, grown up in traditional Christianity, Protestant Christianity, my entire life.

Speaker C: 00:03:53

I broke away from that, you know, went off the rails when I was in high school, in my early adult life, did everything that I was told not to do.

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And I came back just before I got married.

Speaker C: 00:04:06

I started coming back to the truths of Christ, but in a different way.

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And so then I began to learn and I began to get free mentally and emotionally and understanding my identity in Christ and what that truly meant.

Speaker C: 00:04:20

And at that point, my attitude was, I can't know this information and not tell everybody else.

Speaker C: 00:04:26

It was so exciting and so revolutionary for me.

Speaker C: 00:04:29

And that's when I got involved in Christian counseling and I did that for 16 years.

Speaker C: 00:04:35

for a little while because in: 2008

Speaker C: 00:04:43

It was very strange.

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So I've been involved in lay teaching and counseling since that time and now I'm getting back to full time ministry again and we're launching Greater Covenant Truths this year.

Speaker C: 00:04:58

And so this book was being written during that whole time and all my research.

Speaker C: 00:05:04

And it was odd because it took me 15 years to write this book because, well, for me it was so controversial and I was so prayerful about Lord.

Speaker C: 00:05:13

I don't want people to reject it because it's contrary to tradition.

Speaker C: 00:05:18

And so I've just been very careful about how we do this and approach it and how I present it.

Speaker C: 00:05:24

And also it started off as a thesis.

Speaker C: 00:05:28

So my wife was like, nobody's going to read this.

Speaker C: 00:05:31

It's too thick, it's too theologically heavy.

Speaker C: 00:05:34

And so I had to do a lot of rewrites.

Speaker C: 00:05:36

Thank goodness for my wife.

Speaker B: 00:05:39

I was laughing because, you know, when I got my masters, you know, I turned in the thesis and, and it was on the six trials of Jesus is what I turned it in on.

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And the professor's like, this would make a great book, you know.

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And then so after I graduated and all that, I put together, you know, into a book form and you know, my proofreader came out and says, this still sounds like a thesis.

Speaker B: 00:06:04

That's why I was laughing when you said that, because I experienced the.

Speaker C: 00:06:09

Yeah, it was a lot.

Speaker C: 00:06:11

I gave it to a couple of guys that I knew that had graduated from Bible colleges in a seminary and they were handing it back to me going, man, this is thick.

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You got to work on it.

Speaker C: 00:06:22

So, okay.

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Took time.

Speaker B: 00:06:25

Well, I know you're in the military.

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What'd you do?

Speaker C: 00:06:28

Well, in the military.

Speaker C: 00:06:29

I did everything that's not there now.

Speaker C: 00:06:31

It's, it's really strange.

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I was stationed at Fort Benning, Georgia for three years.

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I was active for three years in communications.

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And so my wife, her family's there.

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That's where I met her.

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We went back to visit and I just went back to the base.

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You know, kind of reminisce a little bit.

Speaker C: 00:06:48

All the names have changed.

Speaker C: 00:06:49

They've changed the name of Fort Benning to something else.

Speaker C: 00:06:52

Kelly Hill, where I was stationed on post, that's changed.

Speaker C: 00:06:56

My MOS as a communications was a 31 kilo and apparently now that's training canines.

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So it's almost as though my service didn't exist.

Speaker C: 00:07:09

You know, the whole thing has changed.

Speaker C: 00:07:10

But yeah, that was a very good experience for me.

Speaker C: 00:07:13

And you know, the Lord really used that experience to kind of bring me back into a place where my head needed to be straight again.

Speaker C: 00:07:21

I had gone so far off the rails, I was suicidal at that point and I was just done with it.

Speaker C: 00:07:27

My experience was, you can't, as a child growing up in church, there was just never going to be good enough for God.

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There's nothing I could ever do that was going to be good enough.

Speaker C: 00:07:37

And it was so frustrating.

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And I can remember even as early as 13 years old, sitting in my youth group at church hearing, you're such a sinner, you need to get on your face before God and beg for God's forgiveness.

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And this very hardcore doctrine.

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And it was just impossible and it was overwhelming.

Speaker C: 00:07:55

And so, you know, my dad was coming out of that at that time and beginning to realize that this, we got to relook at what we're talking about here.

Speaker C: 00:08:04

And so that was, change was happening, but he wasn't sharing that change with me.

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So I'm just seeing my dad do the different things than what he preached about and taught.

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And I was confused.

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And I look back and say, you know, I understand this 12 year old kid, 13 year old kid being confused and frustrated and struggling with things and a relationship with my dad and some of the normal things that happened at that time in life.

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And I just decided, well, I guess that was all a lie, so the opposite must be true.

Speaker C: 00:08:36

So if rock and roll is a sin, then I'm going to listen to rock and roll.

Speaker C: 00:08:39

And if smoking cigarettes is a sin, then I'm gonna, I'm gonna smoke cigarettes and on down the list.

Speaker C: 00:08:45

And of course I found people that were more than happy to accommodate me in all that behavior.

Speaker C: 00:08:50

And I just went down the road, you know, and it got to a point where it was so destructive and so terrible by the time I was 20 years old that I was.

Speaker C: 00:08:59

My attitude was simply, you know what?

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I'm so lonely and there's just nothing in this life.

Speaker C: 00:09:04

And so if everything I learned about God was a lie, and the opposite of that obviously is also a lie, then what's the point in living?

Speaker C: 00:09:12

I just don't even want to be here, you know?

Speaker C: 00:09:16

Now the truth was I didn't really want to die, but I didn't want to live if those were my only two options either.

Speaker C: 00:09:21

And that's when God started bringing things back into my life and I started turning back toward there's another option.

Speaker C: 00:09:30

It's odd because my father was very instrumental in teaching this and introducing this to me initially.

Speaker C: 00:09:37

And I had a lot of conflict with him.

Speaker C: 00:09:39

But I set that aside and went, well, I guess I'll listen to what he has to say.

Speaker C: 00:09:43

And if there's.

Speaker C: 00:09:44

It's the same old garbage that I've heard my whole life, then you know, this is still an option.

Speaker C: 00:09:49

But what he had to say was very different.

Speaker C: 00:09:51

And it set me on a road that was opposite of you got to do for God.

Speaker C: 00:09:56

And one of the main things I learned was you, you're never going to impress God.

Speaker C: 00:10:02

Nothing you do for God is ever going to be good enough.

Speaker C: 00:10:05

And that's the whole point.

Speaker C: 00:10:07

And that's weird because, you know, it's ironic.

Speaker C: 00:10:11

And the example that I use to illustrate that, because it's confusing when you hear me say it is Matthew 5.

Speaker C: 00:10:16

Jesus lines out all these things we're supposed to do.

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And I, I was taught my whole life that that's the Christian lifestyle.

Speaker C: 00:10:21

That's what Jesus was telling Christians how to live life.

Speaker C: 00:10:25

There's all kinds of problems with that, starting with the fact that there were no Christians at the time Jesus audience were 1st century Roman occupied Judeans.

Speaker C: 00:10:35

And so when you think like a first century Roman occupied Judean, Matthew 5 reads very differently than if you're a modern Westernized Christian.

Speaker C: 00:10:44

And so I began to think of it that way.

Speaker C: 00:10:46

But here's what really got me.

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After all the list of things trim the other cheek and don't return evil for evil.

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And if you ask for your coat, give him your shirt.

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And on and on and on.

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The list goes, at the end of that list, he says, oh yeah, and be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect.

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I'm just like, are you kidding me?

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Like, this is the impossible task.

Speaker C: 00:11:10

But then I realized, you Know, this wasn't Jesus giving us a list of things to do for him.

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This was something that Jesus was making a point about.

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And he summarizes it with that last statement.

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All these things I've told you to do, basically, is being perfect.

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You do all that stuff and you'll be perfect, just like your Father in heaven is perfect.

Speaker C: 00:11:30

And we say, that's impossible.

Speaker C: 00:11:33

And he goes, exactly.

Speaker C: 00:11:34

That's what I'm here for.

Speaker B: 00:11:36

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:11:36

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:11:39

Yep, I know that, you know, you share, you know, that's basically what's being taught is do more for God, serve more, give more, pray more.

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And you call this religious performance.

Speaker B: 00:11:55

And that's a huge trap that a lot of believers fall into.

Speaker B: 00:11:59

Like you said, how do you recommend or what do you recommend as a remedy for that concept of the pressure that's being applied?

Speaker C: 00:12:07

Well, it's actually in the rest of the title of the book.

Speaker C: 00:12:09

So the main title is Stop Living for the Lord, but the subtitle is and let the Lord live through you.

Speaker C: 00:12:16

I have a pair of feet on the COVID of my book sticking out of a window.

Speaker C: 00:12:20

Because the idea is we want to do just as Jesus said or encouraged us to do in Matthew, chapter 11, to come to me and I will give you rest, not more stuff to do.

Speaker C: 00:12:32

And what I realized is when I'm doing everything for God, that is exactly what it is, me doing everything for God.

Speaker C: 00:12:46

Yeah, that never works.

Speaker C: 00:12:48

God is the only one that's going to make anything happen if there's any value in it.

Speaker C: 00:12:53

So when I learn how to rest and let him live through me, then, and I'm cooperating with him in that effort, then he's doing the work through me.

Speaker C: 00:13:03

And that just relieves all the pressure.

Speaker C: 00:13:06

Now, what that requires is for me to start understanding what is this relationship that I have with God.

Speaker C: 00:13:12

Some of the books I'm working on right now, I'm working on a series that I'm calling it.

Speaker C: 00:13:18

Well, I'm kind of playing with the title, as you can tell.

Speaker C: 00:13:20

I'm stammering, but it's according to God's design.

Speaker C: 00:13:25

And then you can plug in whatever subject you want to talk about there.

Speaker C: 00:13:29

How do we build a marriage according to God's design?

Speaker C: 00:13:32

How do we have relationship with God according to God's design?

Speaker C: 00:13:35

God designed everything.

Speaker C: 00:13:37

Everything that exists was designed by God.

Speaker C: 00:13:41

And when we study and learn the design and understand the design, and then we submit ourselves to God and cooperate with him in the design, well, then everything goes well.

Speaker C: 00:13:54

That's not to say that there's not going to be problems.

Speaker C: 00:13:56

But then again, there's your next subject.

Speaker C: 00:13:58

How do we solve problems according to God's design?

Speaker C: 00:14:01

And there's a design for that as well.

Speaker C: 00:14:04

And so when you, when you take long answer to your question is with the remedy is that understand God's design.

Speaker C: 00:14:12

How did he set this up for us to have relationship with him so that he can work through us to make whatever it is that he's wanting, whatever his will is to happen.

Speaker C: 00:14:23

And the answer to that is that you learn how to rest and you learn how to cooperate with him in the design.

Speaker C: 00:14:29

You know, it's funny Bob, that we, and I mean funny ironic is that we say, we have a lot of language in Christianity and we say things like do you have a God centered life?

Speaker C: 00:14:40

Is God the center of your marriage?

Speaker C: 00:14:42

Right.

Speaker C: 00:14:43

We like that kind of idea.

Speaker C: 00:14:45

In answering the question, we say, oh yeah, yeah, my wife and I, we live for the Lord and we serve God and I'm getting closer to God and I'm growing spiritually and it's always the I, I, I, me, me and I sit back and go, well, is God really the sinner or are you the sinner?

Speaker B: 00:15:02

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:15:03

Amen.

Speaker C: 00:15:04

So flipping that mindset around is the remedy.

Speaker B: 00:15:09

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:15:09

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:15:10

So explain why you wrote this book, Stop living for the Lord.

Speaker C: 00:15:16

Well, that takes us back to what I said earlier, is that my entire childhood and adolescence and all through high school, in my early adult life was based on, was rebellion based on, I'm never going to be able to do it good enough for God, so why bother?

Speaker C: 00:15:31

I know that's an extreme response and not everybody reacts that way, but I did.

Speaker C: 00:15:36

And so the reason I wrote the book is because when I began to understand that I had the entire wrong attitude or understanding about it.

Speaker C: 00:15:45

Like I said, I had to tell everybody.

Speaker C: 00:15:47

I mean, how do you keep something like this secret?

Speaker C: 00:15:51

Because everyone around me, and I don't care what their denomination was, I don't care if they were Protestant or Catholic or if they were professed Mormon or what.

Speaker C: 00:15:59

I don't care whatever you're, if you were Zen or Buddhist, everybody comes from the same perspective.

Speaker C: 00:16:06

It's a human condition that I have to do more stuff in order to please, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker C: 00:16:13

Fill in that blank for you.

Speaker C: 00:16:15

No, it begins when we're kids, right?

Speaker C: 00:16:16

We all perform to gain acceptance.

Speaker C: 00:16:18

You're taught very young.

Speaker C: 00:16:20

If you do this, that or the other, whatever that is for your people, then you'll be accepted.

Speaker C: 00:16:26

It's taught in church, it's taught.

Speaker C: 00:16:28

So all of our religion, all of our work and career, all of our education, all of our personal and interpersonal relationships, it's always the same line.

Speaker C: 00:16:37

If you do what's acceptable to us, then you'll be accepted.

Speaker C: 00:16:42

And that is not how it is with God.

Speaker C: 00:16:45

That's the one relationship that is the other way around.

Speaker C: 00:16:48

He died for us while we were still sinners.

Speaker C: 00:16:50

Yeah, you don't.

Speaker C: 00:16:52

You can't.

Speaker C: 00:16:52

It's not even that you don't.

Speaker C: 00:16:54

You cannot do anything that's going to please God such that he finally says, okay, I'll accept you.

Speaker C: 00:17:01

That doesn't exist.

Speaker B: 00:17:02

And that takes me to the next question, because I read that, you know, born again believers are not sinners and cannot be sinners.

Speaker B: 00:17:11

Share about that concept for a minute.

Speaker C: 00:17:13

Yeah, that's the big.

Speaker C: 00:17:15

That's the big controversy right there.

Speaker C: 00:17:17

Well, Dwayne, everybody's a sinner.

Speaker C: 00:17:19

Everybody's born into sin.

Speaker C: 00:17:21

And yes, I agree with that.

Speaker C: 00:17:23

There's a change that happens, though, when somebody becomes born again.

Speaker C: 00:17:27

2nd Corinthians 5:17 is very clear that anyone who is born of God, born again, born through this belief system in Christ, is a new creation.

Speaker C: 00:17:38

Old things are passed away.

Speaker C: 00:17:40

All things have become new.

Speaker C: 00:17:42

And the question that I ask is, well, what are the old things and what are the new things?

Speaker C: 00:17:46

Now, most of the time that gets answered in this context of performance to gain acceptance.

Speaker C: 00:17:51

Well, all the old bad behavior will go away and all the new good behavior will start.

Speaker C: 00:17:56

But that's not at all what he's talking about.

Speaker C: 00:17:58

He says, you're a new creation.

Speaker C: 00:18:01

Everything about your identity changes when you become born again.

Speaker C: 00:18:06

And then when we go to 1 John 3, 9, 10, he digs into that.

Speaker C: 00:18:11

John gets into that even deeper, which to me is the biggest controversy.

Speaker C: 00:18:14

And I tell people, don't yell at me about it.

Speaker C: 00:18:16

Go figure that out with Apostle John is the one that said that whoever is born of God does not commit sin.

Speaker C: 00:18:24

Now, if you just stop right there and let that settle on you for a moment, it is completely contrary to everything that we learn in Christianity.

Speaker C: 00:18:33

You do not commit sin.

Speaker C: 00:18:35

But then he doubles down.

Speaker C: 00:18:37

He goes on to say, and you cannot sin.

Speaker C: 00:18:41

Wait a minute.

Speaker C: 00:18:42

My whole life I've been told I'm a sinner, and all I do is commit acts of sin.

Speaker C: 00:18:48

I see sin all over the place.

Speaker C: 00:18:49

How many can raise their hand in the room and say, I've never committed sin since I've been saved?

Speaker C: 00:18:53

That's a lie.

Speaker C: 00:18:54

No, you have.

Speaker C: 00:18:56

So how can John Say we do not sin, and even more, we cannot sin.

Speaker C: 00:19:02

That is an amazing thing.

Speaker C: 00:19:03

But the great part of it is he answers the question right behind that.

Speaker C: 00:19:06

And he says, because his seed, God's seed, remains in us.

Speaker B: 00:19:12

Amen.

Speaker C: 00:19:13

And we cannot sin because we are born of God.

Speaker C: 00:19:17

And then you go over one chapter into verse, into chapter four, verse 17, he says, now we can have confidence in the day of judgment, because as he is referring to Christ, so are we in this world.

Speaker C: 00:19:31

That was the big change for me right there.

Speaker C: 00:19:34

You telling me that I am just like Christ, That's a big, big deal.

Speaker C: 00:19:40

And I.

Speaker C: 00:19:40

When I first started learning this, I had a hard time saying it out loud.

Speaker C: 00:19:44

I mean, what if.

Speaker C: 00:19:46

What if I get struck down and what.

Speaker C: 00:19:48

You know, this is such heresy.

Speaker C: 00:19:49

How can anyone say that they're like Christ?

Speaker C: 00:19:52

But to clarify, we're not.

Speaker C: 00:19:54

I don't believe John is saying that we are God.

Speaker C: 00:19:56

We have become God.

Speaker C: 00:19:58

That's not what he's saying.

Speaker C: 00:19:59

What he is saying is that we have taken on the same identity as God.

Speaker C: 00:20:03

We're one with him now.

Speaker C: 00:20:05

And so whatever God's identity is, it becomes ours.

Speaker C: 00:20:09

And if you jump back a couple of verses there in First John 4, he starts with, in verse 16, God is love.

Speaker C: 00:20:17

And whoever's in God.

Speaker C: 00:20:19

Whoever's in love is in God.

Speaker C: 00:20:21

And whoever's in God is in love, God's in him.

Speaker C: 00:20:23

And then he goes on to say that because of this, we can have confidence in the day of judgment.

Speaker C: 00:20:31

And then as he is, so are we in this world.

Speaker C: 00:20:35

And that just refers right back to what he said a minute ago, God is love.

Speaker C: 00:20:39

What I can understand from that is, if God is love and I am the same as God is identity wise, then I too am love.

Speaker C: 00:20:48

Now, what is that?

Speaker C: 00:20:50

Let's unpack it.

Speaker C: 00:20:51

We'll go back to First Corinthians, chapter 13, and he'll just give you the list.

Speaker C: 00:20:55

If Paul just lays it out real simple, love is patient, love is kind, and so on and so forth.

Speaker C: 00:21:00

And so we say, well, if God is love and I also am love, then I must be kind and gentle.

Speaker C: 00:21:07

I must be joy and peace.

Speaker C: 00:21:11

And so the mindset changes.

Speaker C: 00:21:13

Because we pray, we ask God, God, give me peace.

Speaker C: 00:21:17

Well, how about this prayer?

Speaker C: 00:21:18

God, thank you for making me peace.

Speaker C: 00:21:23

A human condition is what I do, defines who I am.

Speaker C: 00:21:30

God says, no, let's flip that around.

Speaker C: 00:21:32

Who you are should define what you do.

Speaker B: 00:21:35

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:21:35

Praise God.

Speaker C: 00:21:37

Therefore I respond in peaceful ways to the world around me.

Speaker C: 00:21:42

I am love.

Speaker C: 00:21:43

Therefore I respond in loving ways.

Speaker C: 00:21:47

So what I do comes from the place of who I am.

Speaker C: 00:21:52

But if I see myself as a sinner, then I'm not going to be able to operate with God and cooperate with him that way.

Speaker C: 00:21:58

Because sinners sin, right?

Speaker C: 00:22:00

So if I'm a sinner, then I'm stuck.

Speaker C: 00:22:02

I'm trapped.

Speaker C: 00:22:03

Yeah, but Paul tells us in Romans chapter six that's not true, because whoever is born through this process of death, burial, and resurrection, which is ours, just like it's his, is free from sin.

Speaker C: 00:22:16

Verse 7 in Romans chapter 6.

Speaker C: 00:22:18

And then in verse 11, he goes on to say, you need to recognize that you are free from sin.

Speaker C: 00:22:22

You are dead to sin and alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Speaker C: 00:22:27

And then the very next verse, he says, so now, because that's true, do not submit your members as members of unrighteousness, but instead members of righteousness.

Speaker C: 00:22:38

So the truth is, is that John can say, you're not a sinner anymore.

Speaker C: 00:22:43

And not only do you not sin, but you cannot sin because it's an identity situation.

Speaker C: 00:22:50

Paul confirms this in Romans chapter six, that you are free from sin.

Speaker C: 00:22:54

The identity has changed.

Speaker C: 00:22:56

You are now a new creation.

Speaker C: 00:23:00

So because you're free from sin, you no longer have to be trapped and stuck and in bondage to it.

Speaker C: 00:23:07

So walk in Ephesians 4, walk according to the according to what you were called in the manner worthy of which you were called.

Speaker C: 00:23:18

I can do that because I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength because I am a new creation and because I am love, joy, peace.

Speaker C: 00:23:28

And one other quick thought there that I love to point out to people is this basic statistic from Matthew to Revelation.

Speaker C: 00:23:36

Not one time are born again believers referred to as sinners, but 16 times they're referred to as saints.

Speaker C: 00:23:44

And in Colossians chapter one, he's very clear that Christ presents us to his Father as holy, which means a sacred saint, unblamable, which means you're not held accountable and as unreprovable, which means you have nothing to prove to God.

Speaker C: 00:24:02

Now that is a new creation.

Speaker C: 00:24:05

And that's what I get excited about because it changes everything that I understand about my relationship with God and how I can interact with him and everyone around me.

Speaker B: 00:24:14

That's good.

Speaker B: 00:24:15

That's good.

Speaker B: 00:24:17

What's one of the biggest basically, aha moments or revelations that readers have shared with you after reading Stop Living for the Lord?

Speaker B: 00:24:26

How is this message assisted in changing lives?

Speaker C: 00:24:30

Yeah, that's a great question.

Speaker C: 00:24:32

I'm counseling with some people right now.

Speaker C: 00:24:33

Just yesterday I was in A session.

Speaker C: 00:24:35

And this gentleman was telling me that it.

Speaker C: 00:24:39

Everything that I've been teaching him and all kinds of other categories or.

Speaker C: 00:24:44

Or different ideas and learning about marriage and learning about how to communicate and different things like that.

Speaker C: 00:24:50

He said, dwayne, without understanding who I am in Christ, it makes it difficult to practice all of these other great truths that I'm learning.

Speaker C: 00:25:00

And a lot of this I've learned my entire life.

Speaker C: 00:25:03

You know, I've grown up in church.

Speaker C: 00:25:04

He's told me.

Speaker C: 00:25:05

And so a lot of what you're saying I've heard before, but I've never been able to practice it.

Speaker C: 00:25:11

But because I understand who I am in Christ now, it changes the relationship I'm having with him.

Speaker C: 00:25:16

It's changing the relationship I'm having with me.

Speaker C: 00:25:18

Because before I was constantly rejecting myself, very critical of myself, beating myself up a lot because I fail and fail and fail and.

Speaker C: 00:25:29

And again, never good enough.

Speaker C: 00:25:31

And I'm always going to God.

Speaker C: 00:25:32

God, I'm sorry.

Speaker C: 00:25:33

God, I'm sorry.

Speaker C: 00:25:35

But now I don't.

Speaker C: 00:25:36

I don't see myself that way anymore.

Speaker C: 00:25:38

So it's more about.

Speaker C: 00:25:40

As I mentioned earlier, I do, because I am not the other way around.

Speaker C: 00:25:46

When I rely on my performance, I'm failing all the time.

Speaker C: 00:25:50

And that's telling me that I'm a failure in my identity.

Speaker C: 00:25:53

But when I understand who I am in Christ, then what I do coming from that is really God working it through me.

Speaker B: 00:26:01

Amen.

Speaker C: 00:26:02

And so that takes the pressure off, and I'm much more successful.

Speaker C: 00:26:05

It's easier to love my wife, for example.

Speaker B: 00:26:08

Well, for someone listening to us right now, what's the number one thing you think they should do other than buy your book?

Speaker B: 00:26:16

Praise God.

Speaker B: 00:26:16

We'll get to that in a minute.

Speaker B: 00:26:17

But outside of that, what's the number one thing you believe they should do?

Speaker C: 00:26:23

Well, wow, that's a really tough question to answer because there's a lot of things that I think are important.

Speaker C: 00:26:29

One thing I encourage people to do is I push against the tradition.

Speaker C: 00:26:35

There's a couple of things.

Speaker C: 00:26:36

Stop trying to get closer to God.

Speaker C: 00:26:40

Stop trying to grow spiritually.

Speaker C: 00:26:43

Stop trying to live for the Lord.

Speaker C: 00:26:47

These traditional things that we love to talk about.

Speaker C: 00:26:50

Stop doing those things and begin to shift your focus and study Scripture on how to rest.

Speaker C: 00:26:57

What does resting mean?

Speaker C: 00:26:59

Does that mean that I just lay down and do nothing?

Speaker C: 00:27:03

Does it mean that I take a vacation?

Speaker C: 00:27:05

You know, it's.

Speaker C: 00:27:07

There's a lot of authors in my life that have been very instrumental, like John Walton, for example.

Speaker C: 00:27:12

He's.

Speaker C: 00:27:13

He's Got a series called the Lost.

Speaker C: 00:27:18

The Lot.

Speaker C: 00:27:18

The Lost.

Speaker C: 00:27:19

I want to say the Lost Book.

Speaker C: 00:27:20

It's not right.

Speaker C: 00:27:21

It's the Lost.

Speaker C: 00:27:21

It's about ancient societies and how they look.

Speaker C: 00:27:26

The Lost World.

Speaker C: 00:27:27

That's what it is.

Speaker C: 00:27:28

The Lost World Series.

Speaker C: 00:27:29

Lost World of the Flood, the Lost World of Adam and Eve, the Lost world of several different areas.

Speaker C: 00:27:35

And his big thing is this.

Speaker C: 00:27:38

If you want to understand Scripture, then you need to understand the audience that it was being written to.

Speaker C: 00:27:46

And I've always believed that's true.

Speaker C: 00:27:47

And I.

Speaker C: 00:27:48

And I really appreciated that He.

Speaker C: 00:27:49

He comes at it from that way.

Speaker C: 00:27:51

It's very deep.

Speaker C: 00:27:53

He's a very smart man.

Speaker C: 00:27:54

A lot of scholarly, deep theology in those books.

Speaker C: 00:27:58

But when you come at it from that vantage point, I come to people with it.

Speaker C: 00:28:05

I try to be a little simpler with it in this way.

Speaker C: 00:28:08

Stop reading your Bible and start studying your Bible.

Speaker C: 00:28:12

I encourage people to learn because that's what Jesus says in Matthew 11, right before he offers rest.

Speaker C: 00:28:17

He says, come learn.

Speaker B: 00:28:19

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:28:20

That's right.

Speaker C: 00:28:20

So don't learn.

Speaker C: 00:28:21

A lot of people read their Bible and they go to church and they pray and they do all those things.

Speaker C: 00:28:25

And those are important things to do.

Speaker C: 00:28:26

I do those things.

Speaker C: 00:28:27

I find them very, very valuable.

Speaker C: 00:28:29

Of course, they're basic staples of the faith.

Speaker C: 00:28:33

However, if you want to mature, you've got to go in a little further.

Speaker C: 00:28:36

And you got to study.

Speaker C: 00:28:37

Don't just read, study.

Speaker C: 00:28:38

And you got to ask a lot of questions, and you got to push back.

Speaker C: 00:28:41

You got to say, well, God, my prayer was this, Lord, I don't want to rely on everybody else's commentary.

Speaker C: 00:28:49

I don't want to read all of the pastors that have commented on all what this means, because I've read four different guys and they have three different understandings of that passage.

Speaker C: 00:28:57

I learned what I learned growing up.

Speaker C: 00:28:59

I hear people on the radio.

Speaker C: 00:29:01

Everybody's got a book.

Speaker C: 00:29:03

Look at me, I got a book.

Speaker C: 00:29:04

So what?

Speaker C: 00:29:05

I'm one of, you know, literally hundreds of thousands of people that have written books.

Speaker C: 00:29:10

Who cares?

Speaker C: 00:29:10

What does that got to do with anything?

Speaker C: 00:29:12

There's one thing that matters.

Speaker C: 00:29:14

What does God say and what does his scripture say?

Speaker C: 00:29:18

He's the one that has cornered the market on truth.

Speaker C: 00:29:21

So if you can't understand scripture and be willing to say, God, I don't understand this, please explain it to me in a way that I can get it.

Speaker C: 00:29:29

And believe me, he will answer that prayer.

Speaker C: 00:29:31

Oh, yeah, you begin to reveal, or he begins to reveal to you what the underlying truth is not the service Surface presentation of that truth only.

Speaker C: 00:29:43

But what's its meaning?

Speaker C: 00:29:45

How do I intend you to apply this in your life?

Speaker B: 00:29:48

Yeah, well, Duane, this is so interesting because it almost flows along with what I've been preaching on these past couple of months, I guess, for focusing on the red letters of Christ, just letting those minister to you, because that's just Jesus speaking.

Speaker B: 00:30:03

I mean, he is the word, total encompassed word, you know, and that's why I've been sharing on my Sunday programs.

Speaker B: 00:30:12

Just let the words of Christ minister to you without getting all bogged down in the traditionalism and the religious duties and, and all that have been added to just the simplicity of Christ, you know, and that's what I loved about your book too, you know, because you have to go back really to stop performing and just be, you know, Jesus made it so simple.

Speaker B: 00:30:38

He said, you know, matter of fact, he also said, you'll be judged by my words, you know, what you do with them, you know, not what you do, but by the words.

Speaker B: 00:30:49

Praise God.

Speaker B: 00:30:49

But how could someone obtain a copy of your book, Stop Living for the Lord.

Speaker B: 00:30:52

I take it it's on Amazon, correct?

Speaker C: 00:30:54

Yeah, everything's on Amazon.

Speaker C: 00:30:56

So that's, that's an option.

Speaker C: 00:30:57

ChristianBooks.com also carries it and you can go to Barnes and Noble and pick it up there.

Speaker B: 00:31:03

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:31:04

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:31:04

So if someone wanted to reach out to you and, and ask a question or get in touch, maybe even do an interview like this, how can they do that?

Speaker B: 00:31:10

How can someone get in touch with you?

Speaker C: 00:31:12

Well, you can go to gctfreedom.org that's gctfreedom.org it's Greater Covenant Truths abbreviated.

Speaker C: 00:31:22

So gctfreedom.org and then there's a place there on that website that you can learn a little bit more about us and where you can reach out and contact us.

Speaker C: 00:31:32

Keeping in mind, we are launching this year, so we're in the middle of getting things uploaded and platforms done and we're going to be changing that website and stuff.

Speaker C: 00:31:39

So but it's a great beginning point to just learn about what's our theological position, where do we stand, our statement of faith, some of those kinds of things.

Speaker C: 00:31:48

And yes, you can, you can leave messages there and I can reach out to you.

Speaker B: 00:31:52

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:31:52

Praise God.

Speaker B: 00:31:53

I'll put links all this in the show notes below.

Speaker B: 00:31:55

Folks, all I can say is wow, right?

Speaker B: 00:32:00

What a powerful conversation we've had with Dwayne Lawrence today.

Speaker B: 00:32:03

I mean this, it should serve as an eye opener for a lot of you listening out there right now.

Speaker B: 00:32:08

And if today's discussion challenged the way you think about your faith, I encourage you grab a copy of this great book, Stop Living for the Lord.

Speaker B: 00:32:16

Dive deeper into this life changing message.

Speaker B: 00:32:19

Praise God.

Speaker B: 00:32:20

I mean, you can find the book.

Speaker B: 00:32:22

You can connect with Duane through the links in the show notes below.

Speaker B: 00:32:26

Go to the local bookstore, Barnes and Nobles, whatever.

Speaker B: 00:32:28

Tell them you want to get that book.

Speaker B: 00:32:29

Do not miss this opportunity to step into the true freedom that's available in Christ as we've discovered today.

Speaker B: 00:32:38

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:32:39

This is important stuff.

Speaker B: 00:32:40

You heard me talking about traditionalism and how it's sending people to hell and all that.

Speaker B: 00:32:45

What you just heard today will save your life, right?

Speaker B: 00:32:47

Not just here, but the next life too.

Speaker B: 00:32:50

Amen.

Speaker B: 00:32:50

Drop down the show notes.

Speaker B: 00:32:52

Reach out to Duane Lawrence right now.

Speaker B: 00:32:53

Order his book while you're down there and do it now before you forget about it.

Speaker B: 00:32:57

You know how the devil works.

Speaker B: 00:32:59

He'll try to distract you long enough so you start doing other things and just forget about it.

Speaker B: 00:33:03

So connect right now while you're thinking about.

Speaker B: 00:33:05

Order the book right now.

Speaker B: 00:33:07

Dwayne, I appreciate you taking that time to come on the program today and share all about the great ministry you're putting together and this great book.

Speaker B: 00:33:16

Stop Living for the Lord.

Speaker B: 00:33:17

I love that title.

Speaker B: 00:33:18

That's an attention getter.

Speaker B: 00:33:19

Thank you for coming on the program today, brother.

Speaker C: 00:33:22

Thank you very much for having me, folks.

Speaker B: 00:33:25

That's all the time we have for today for Dwayne Lawrence, myself, this passed about reminding you to be blessed in all that you do.

Speaker A: 00:33:33

Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Kingdom Crossroads podcast.

Speaker A: 00:33:37

Please subscribe to our podcast so you can be notified when another episode is published.

Speaker A: 00:33:42

interviews and: 1000

Speaker A: 00:33:54

Please visit our website at www.podcastersforchrist.com.

Speaker A: 00:34:01

that way web address again is www.podcastersforchrist.Com.

Speaker A: 00:34:07

for more information, until next time, be blessed in all that you do.