Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads podcast with Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Pastor Bob conducts personal interviews with Christian influencers from around the globe, helping Christian authors, recording artists, CEOs, entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders, and yes, pastors and ministry leaders to get the word out about what they are doing to impact the world with the gospel.

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Now here is your host with today's interview, Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Hello everyone everywhere.

Pastor Bob Thibodeau here.

Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads podcast Today.

We're so blessed that you're joining us.

Question for you.

What if the answers to life's deepest questions were hidden in simple everyday stories?

Well, I want you to join us as we welcome John Cleveland, author of 40, a collection of modern day parables.

With a background as a soldier, a highway patrolman and a faith driven adventurer, John brings a unique perspective on God, humanity and the mysteries of life through his captivating tales.

Reminiscent of the Chronicles of Narnia and the Shack, John invites us to explore profound truths in our basically unpredictable world.

Amen.

You need to prepare now to be inspired, challenged and move.

Praise God.

Help me.

Welcome to the program John Cleveland.

Praise God.

John, I appreciate taking the time to join us today, brother.

Hey Bob.

I am humbled and honored by this opportunity.

Thank you so much.

Amen.

Now the first question I always start with is this.

Other than that brief information I just shared, can you tell us in your own words, who is John Cleveland?

Okay, so John Cleveland right now, I guess that changes throughout a lifetime.

But John Cleveland is a 48 year old husband, believer in Christ, master of two dogs, a friend, a hiker, an employee of the job corps.

So right now I'm a lot of things, I wear a lot of hats.

Amen.

Amen.

Now I have to tell you, you know, as I was preparing for today's interview, I couldn't help but see the similarities between our two backgrounds.

Soldier, you know, highway patrol and called by God to make a difference in our own unique ways.

You know, obviously I was called into media ministry, traditional radio, including our own nationwide, you know, Christian AM radio program.

That as we talking before the recording started, that's what really prepared me for what I do today online, which really takes a lot of attention to detail.

I mean, I believe my background as a leader in the military and then, you know, career as a cop gave me that ability to, to see things that others can't.

And Then use that information successfully.

But how about you?

How does your personal journey from military service to law enforcement to retirement?

How's all that influence your stories that you put into the book?

40.

So I'm going to answer that in one word, and it's contrast.

And so let me explain that.

As you know, when you're in law enforcement, your world revolves around justice, accusing people of what they've done wrong.

And so that's your mindset.

That's how you view people.

That's how you view society.

And it is hard on a soul to live like that.

It's tough, but it's necessary.

So, you know, the greater part of my life was spent in that mode.

But now I don't have a gun.

I don't have the right to arrest.

I don't have a uniform or a patrol car.

And so now I'm seeing the world to the eyes of mercy instead of justice.

And it is retraining my heart, it's retraining my mind.

And especially where I work at, we deal with underprivileged youth.

And it is a tough crowd.

I'm not gonna lie.

I mean, those guys, you know, there's a lot of, like, you know, bitter attitudes and just resentment towards the world because they're in a tough place.

They're in a really tough situation.

But having to look at them with a heart of mercy and compassion instead of.

Instead of, you know, judgment and condemnation, like, it is retraining my mind.

It's rewiring circuits every day.

Amen.

Amen.

I want you to share with us a story that I read about the old couple you met on a hike and him giving you a book.

How did that influence what you're doing now?

Okay, so I was probably 18 or 19 years old, and this was in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee.

I'm from Alabama originally.

And so anyway, I'm a teenager, and I run into this couple, and they're probably my age now.

They're probably in their late 40s, but the guy was just instantly likable.

I mean, just from the moment you met him, you just.

He had this.

This light and this warmth around him and just friendly and inquisitive.

And so after like three or four minutes, he says, hey, can I give you something?

And his wife, I remember she rolled her eyes, and she's like, he does this everywhere we go.

But anyway, he reaches into his backpack and he pulls out this little paper bag, and he gives it to me.

And at the time, I was like, thanks.

But anyway, I read the book, I still have it, it's in my bookshelf here.

But you know, that had a lifetime effect on me and it probably only cost him a few bucks, but just the fact that he cared enough to invest in me, a stranger, a young kid.

But he gave something that was of value to him and he gave it to me and he passed it on.

And it's, you know, it's done its part to shape the course of my life.

That little simple gift.

So that was, that was a big motivation for me.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

You know, many authors draw on personal experience to write their books.

Are there elements of your life that's reflected in any of the stories that you put in your book?

Yes and no.

I mean, I'm like any human being, you know, I've had my share of experiences and ups and downs and highs and lows.

But the, the catalyst for the story, as you know, it was when I was serving as a chaplain.

I was a volunteer at a non profit called Serving you Ministries in Birmingham.

And that's how all of this started.

I never intended to be an author.

I never intended to publish a book, but, you know, that's how it started.

Yeah.

Well, why did you choose parables as your storytelling format?

Okay, so this also requires some backstory.

So I'm volunteering as a chaplain at this non profit and it's in a rough part of town, it's low income, we're helping people with their groceries, with their power bills.

But my wife, while she would be looking at their finances, she's a numbers girl, really smart.

I was praying with the clients and I would share Bible stories with them.

And I gotta be honest, the Bible stories just went right over their heads.

And I'm like, holy smokes.

Like these guys are not familiar with the Bible at all.

And when I would try to tell them the stories that Jesus told about livestock or fishing or farming, it just.

There was a disconnect.

There was a huge disconnect.

And so anyway, I started to tell parables that had modern day elements.

And so my very first one, it's in the book, but it's about a cruise ship.

And the cruise ship goes to this horrible storm and it ends up sinking.

And so the whole story was to illustrate how much do we contribute to our salvation.

That was the whole premise of the story.

You know, do we contribute anything or are we entirely helpless?

And it's just a fun little story.

But anyway, the collection grew, you know, the stories grew and after a while my wife said, you need to write these down.

So, you know, I.

I trust my wife's intuition, her advice, so that's what I did.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Let me ask you, what is the significance of the number 40 in your title?

Symbolic?

Or is it simply, you know, a number?

No, it was very intentional.

So, you know, I've been reading the Bible since I was 19 years old, and I'm not a weirdo when it comes to things like this, but certain numbers reappear in the Bible over and over and over again.

Your threes, your sevens, your twelves, your 40s.

And I don't know why, I don't know why God did that, but I mean, you can't deny the significance of those numbers.

So anyway, at the time I had around 40 stories written down, and I had to add just a few more to get it to that level because some stories didn't make the cut.

You know, some are going to be for the.

The sequel in the future.

But I just, you know, if the Bible places significance on something, I think we should too.

So that's how 40 came to be.

Amen.

Amen.

And your story seemed to touch on basically redemption and transformation.

Can you share a story from the book that particularly resonates with you?

Holy smokes.

You know, each one, you know, each one is unique and I'm really grateful for that.

You know, I don't think it's a cookie cutter book.

And the one that comes to mind is called the Walk.

And it's about my dog, Henry.

I have two hound dogs that we adopted.

And if you know anything about hound dogs, they live for their nose.

Like smelling is everything to them.

And whenever they get like a good sense, like, that's, that's the only thing they can think about.

You know, it's a one track mine, but in the story, it's told from Henry's perspective.

And he's so excited that we're going on a walk, and he gets excited.

But anyway, we take off across the neighborhood, and as we go from block to block, we encounter different things.

And we encounter like, the sense of, like neighborhood cats and raccoons and garbage cans and, you know, trash on the street.

But Henry, he just desperately wants to go pursue these things.

Like, it's just in him to pursue these things.

But anyway, the master, me, the guy with the leash, you know, has to redirect him and has to pull him back.

And at one point he has to just perform a hard stop on Henry to keep him from getting into a dangerous situation and to Me, it's just, it's a sweet comparison between God's relationship to us because he gives us a long leash.

And I'm not saying we're dogs, I'm not saying that.

But like, God gives us so much latitude.

You know, he lets us live our lives and make decisions and, you know, choose our occupations and our spouses.

But at the same time, he's still this element of control and restraint on us.

And it's not to be mean.

It's because he cares about us.

And like, thank God that he does pull the least tight every now and then and keep us from getting into these horrible situations.

Amen.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's so true.

Yeah.

That's been my experience with God.

And so I have to compare it to me and Henry.

I have to.

Yeah, Amen.

I said, I'm not going to go into the story of my listeners have heard it before.

I got caught up on reduction in force, you know, prior to the first call four and all that good stuff.

But, you know, that was a deeply traumatic point in my life.

But then, you know, when I became a cop and all that stuff, you know, it took me probably 10 years to mentally and spiritually accept what happened, you know, because I went, you know, alcohol and lots of suicide and all that stuff during that time frame.

But that now I can look back and see what God did.

Because if I'd have stayed in, I'd have been right in the mouths in a cav, you know, so I'd have been right in the middle.

Matter of fact, my unit that I was in when it was deployed was part of the task force that did that end run around, you know, to go around the enemy and into the Iraq.

So I'd have been right there, you know, and who knows what would have happened, right?

I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today.

Put it like that.

And just like your dog might be pulling on a leash and no, I want to go this way, I want to go this way.

That was me.

And it took about 10 years for me to say, all right, I'll just go where you want me to go.

And here we are today, right?

Yeah.

And why do we relate to that story so well?

And why do we fight it?

You know, why do we fight it?

You know, we should just go, go in the direction we need to from the start.

Amen.

Amen.

Well, your book description suggests layers of meaning.

Let's put it like that.

Beneath the surface of these stories, you give an example of one such deeper truth.

Yeah, so the stories are light hearted.

You know, generally they are, they're not heavy, you know, they're not these deep theological lessons.

But it's just like the Bible.

Like you can read a story in the Bible and just say, well, you know, that's an obvious truth, but then there's a deeper meaning in there.

You know, there's, you know, things that we can resonate with on a personal level.

And like when you talk about the spiritual world, that's opening up a whole new realm that's very mysterious to us because, you know, we don't see the unseen.

You know, we live on this earth and we, we do what we have to to get through every day, but we don't realize that there are influences that we don't see.

And you know, and there is God who's pulling us towards the light, and then there's Satan and he's pulling us towards the darkness.

And it's all around us every day.

We're inundated with it.

And so I think in the stories you get a glimpse of the situation that's very familiar to anybody.

You know, a person would read a story and say, well, you know, well, I've met a friend for coffee or, you know, I've gone to work and had a difficult co worker.

You know, those are situations.

But then when you think about the spiritual elements behind the scenes that are influencing these characters, you're like, oh, that's also taking place in my life.

Like, I also experience that.

And so, yeah, I think there are definitely layers to these stories.

Amen.

Amen.

What was the most challenging part of writing this book?

And how did your faith help guide you through that?

So the most challenging point has been actually turning it from a series of stories into an actual book.

The publishing process and now the marketing process.

You know, I think people have the idea that if you write a book that it just, you know, magically dispenses itself throughout society and that is not the case.

Like, it is not.

And you know this from your, your podcast, but I mean, it requires a lot of effort and consistency.

And, you know, a lot of dead ends and you have to, you know, try another avenue.

So that's been the hardest part, is actually just the logistics of it.

Amen.

Yeah, the logistics.

It's not the exciting part, but it's the needful part.

Let's put it like that.

You know, same thing in the military, you know, and when everybody thinks about, oh, you're going to war, you know, they're thinking about, you know, front lines, you know, the battles and all that.

But, you know, Patton could only go so far before he had to wait for the fuel trucks to catch up.

Sure.

I mean, the logistics part isn't the exciting part, but it's the most important part.

Sure, yeah.

And I read it, said that a good book without marketing is like a sailboat without wind.

And so, yeah, you know, I believe that, you know, God has a purpose for this book and I believe that he can use it.

But I, you know, I've gotta, I've got to create the right environment for it.

I've got to create the right circumstances.

Amen.

Well, how do you see your book being used in the faith community?

You know, small group studies, stuff like that?

You know, I see it as being more of a one on one individual sort of process for this book.

You know, it's not a study guide.

It's not like, you know, it's not like experiencing God type book.

I mean, I suppose a group of friends could, you know, read it and talk about it, but I, I see like a person just reading it before bed at night and just reading a story or two and reflecting on it and just kind of like finding a little solace about who they are in their relationship with God.

I just wanted to take place on an individual, person by person basis.

Amen.

Amen.

So what's next for you as an author?

I mean, you mentioned a sequel.

Do you plan on continuing writing modern parables?

Are you going to explore other genres?

So I've already written like three other novels.

Right.

They're on my computer waiting to go.

But I mean, this takes time and money and so until it's self sustaining, I'm just kind of in a holding pattern because, you know, I've got, you know, a job right now that I do, and I've got responsibilities in my church and a wife and friends.

So I can't, you know, just rediver.

And I don't even know if I'm supposed to, to be honest.

I, you know, I don't know what God's will for me is.

So this is on the sidelines right now.

Like it's a part time gig that I'm doing.

Amen.

Amen.

Well, John, this has been so interesting.

How can someone obtain a copy of your book 40 a collection of modern Day parables?

I take it it's on Amazon, Correct?

Right.

And it's everywhere that a book would be available.

Barnes and Noble books, a million.

It's on all the.

The major outlets.

You can go to my website and just get some more information about it.

Okay.

And if someone has a question or they'd like to receive more information or maybe get in touch with you, do an interview like this, how can they do that?

How can someone get in touch with you?

Sure.

I've got a website.

It's jcwriting.com My name is John Cleveland, so jcwriting.com and there's a message feature on my website.

I'm on Facebook under JC Writing.

My email address is jcwriting76gmail.com and I'm an actual person who loves to have conversations.

So I'm completely accessible.

Completely.

Amen.

Amen.

I'll put links all this in the show notes below.

Folks.

John Cleveland's 40 A Collection of Modern Day parables.

It's more than just a book.

It's an invitation to reflect on life, on faith.

The profound truths hidden in everyday moments.

These inspiring stories will challenge your perspective.

It'll ignite your imagination.

It's going to draw you closer to God's purpose for your life.

Just click the links below to connect with John Cleveland.

Be sure to click the links in the show notes.

Grab your copy of 40 A Collection of Modern Day Parables and explore this transformative work.

I mean, this would make a great Christmas present, right?

I.

I recommend you buy several copies and get a copy for your pastor as well.

I know they just love this.

Hey man, this is, this is a great book.

You need to put it into his hands and who knows, he may even use it as an example in one of the sermons.

Praise God.

Amen.

John, thank you again for taking the time out of your schedule to come on the program today and visit with us.

I do appreciate it, brother.

Thank you, Bob.

You've been great.

Amen.

Folks, that's all the time we have for today for John Cleveland, myself, Pastor Bob, reminding you to be blessed in all that you do.

Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Kingdom Crossroads by podcast.

Please subscribe to our podcast so you can be notified when another episode is published.

Please visit our website@www.podcastersforchrist.com.

that web address again is www.podcastersforchrist.Com.

for more information, until next time, be blessed in all that.